Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse

"My coworker is a narcissist—and so is our boss. What happens when two narcissists have to work together?" 
This week's Fan Mail question comes from a YouTube listener who writes: "Thank you for all your content! Very helpful. I am curious to know - what tends to happen when 'a narcissist meets a narcissist' - meaning they are introduced to each other, are coworkers or need to cooperate with each other in some way or even end up being partners? Are there any patterns to or are there typical characteristics/outcomes to this dynamic? Might they not be aware that they are both narcissists?" 
In this episode, Dr. Kerry breaks down what really happens when two highly narcissistic people enter each other's orbit—whether they fast-bond over shared grandiosity, descend into brutal competition for dominance, or manage an ice-cold alliance for mutual benefit. She explains the collusion-to-competition pipeline, why narcissistic couples can look magnetic but feel exhausting, and why most narcissists will never see themselves the way they see each other.
Submit Your Question 
If you'd like your question addressed on air, send it here: 👉 https://kerrymcavoyphd.fillout.com/fan-mail
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More About Dr. Kerry
Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist and author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism. Her blogs have been featured in Mamami, YourTango, Scary Mommy, and The Good Men Project. 
In Love You More, Dr. McAvoy gives an uncensored glimpse into her survival of narcissistic abuse, and her workbook, First Steps to Leaving a Narcissist, helps victims break free from the confusion common in abusive relationships. She hosts the Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse podcast and offers trauma-related advice on social media.
Submit your question to be answered on air to the Fan Mail link below!
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Disclaimer: This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.

Why do loving parents sometimes push away the very children they'd do anything for? 
This week, Catherine Hickem joins Dr. Kerry to unpack one of the most painful dynamics in modern families—parental estrangement. We explore how unspoken expectations create invisible walls, why parents mistake control for connection, and how grief work (yes, grief work) is the secret to letting your adult children become who they actually are, not who you needed them to be. 
PODCAST EXTRA EXCLUSIVE SEGMENT 
Find the exclusive second segment and weekly newsletter here: https://substack.com/@breakingfreenarcabuse
MORE ABOUT THE PODCAST EXTRA INTERVIEW 
🔹 Stuck waiting for certainty before you leave? 
Catherine and Dr. Kerry tackle the cognitive dissonance trap—why you'll never feel "ready" to go, how to make the hardest decision of your life without clarity, and why almost no one regrets leaving once they finally do. 
👉 Get immediate access to this extended interview: https://substack.com/@breakingfreenarcabuse
MORE ABOUT CATHERINE HICKEM 
Website: https://www.parentingadultchildrentoday.com 
TikTok: @parentingadultchildrentd
Email: [email protected]
CATHERINE HICKEM, LCSW, is a licensed clinical social worker, psychotherapist, executive and family coach, and founder of Parenting Adult Children Today. With over 40 years of experience and a master's degree in clinical social work from the University of Louisville, Catherine has dedicated her career to helping parents navigate the often-overlooked complexities of raising adult children. She is the author of Regret-Free Parenting and specializes in estrangement recovery, teaching parents how to release expectations, grieve unmet dreams, and rebuild relationships grounded in acceptance rather than control. 
Stay in Touch With Dr. Kerry!
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More About Dr. Kerry
Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist and author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism. Her blogs have been featured in Mamami, YourTango, Scary Mommy, and The Good Men Project. 
In Love You More, Dr. McAvoy gives an uncensored glimpse into her survival of narcissistic abuse, and her workbook, First Steps to Leaving a Narcissist, helps victims break free from the confusion common in abusive relationships. She hosts the Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse podcast and offers trauma-related advice on social media.
Submit your question to be answered on air to the Fan Mail link below!
Support the show
Disclaimer: This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.

A listener pushes back and asks, "How do we know the parent claiming alienation isn't actually the abuser manipulating the narrative?"

When a child rejects contact with a parent after separation, is it parental alienation or justified estrangement?

In this week's fan mail, a listener pushes back with a challenge about a previous episode that aired October 16, 2025, titled "Why Does My Ex Always Blame Me When the Kids Want Nothing to Do with Him?" This listener wanted to know how to tell when the person complaining about a toxic co-parent isn't actually the abuser.

Dr. Kerry unpacks the difference between alienation and estrangement, and what "fostering a relationship" actually means when required by a custody agreement.

Got a question or pushback? Send it via the link below or email [email protected]
Submit your question to be answered on air to the Fan Mail link below!
Support the show
Disclaimer: This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.

Ever wonder why betrayal feels so devastating—like more than just cheating?  
This week, Hope Ray joins Dr. Kerry to introduce the concept of betrayal violence: the intersection of infidelity and abuse that most people don't recognize. We explore how sexual secrets create hidden power dynamics through deception, gaslighting, and exploitation—stripping partners of their consent and autonomy.
PODCAST EXTRA EXCLUSIVE SEGMENT 
Find the exclusive second segment and weekly newsletter here: https://substack.com/@breakingfreenarcabuse
MORE ABOUT THE PODCAST EXTRA INTERVIEW 
🔹 When you're the victim: How do you know if you have the whole truth? Hope shares practical guidance on finding trauma-informed support and determining whether your relationship can truly heal or if it's time to leave. 
👉 Get immediate access to this extended interview: https://substack.com/@breakingfreenarcabuse
MORE ABOUT HOPE RAY 
Website: https://www.hoperay.com  
TikTok: @HopeRayTherapy
HOPE RAY is a licensed therapist specializing in betrayal trauma and relationship repair after infidelity. She works extensively with couples navigating the aftermath of sexual secrets and deception, helping partners understand the abusive dynamics created by hidden betrayal. Hope developed the concept of "betrayal violence" to give language to a specific type of harm that occurs when infidelity collides with patterns of deception, gaslighting, and exploitation—abuse that doesn't fit traditional domestic violence frameworks but causes catastrophic damage nonetheless. Through her therapeutic practice and social media presence, she offers a nuanced, compassionate approach that acknowledges both the possibility of genuine change and the importance of safety and truth for betrayed partners.
Stay in Touch With Dr. Kerry!
Youtube
Instagram
TikTok
Facebook
More About Dr. Kerry
Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist and author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism. Her blogs have been featured in Mamami, YourTango, Scary Mommy, and The Good Men Project. 
In Love You More, Dr. McAvoy gives an uncensored glimpse into her survival of narcissistic abuse, and her workbook, First Steps to Leaving a Narcissist, helps victims break free from the confusion common in abusive relationships. She hosts the Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse podcast and offers trauma-related advice on social media.
Submit your question to be answered on air to the Fan Mail link below!
Support the show
Disclaimer: This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.

"My partner has traits of both covert and overt narcissism—is that possible?" This week's Fan Mail question comes from a podcast listener who writes: 
"Can a person be both a covert and an overt narcissist? I'm hearing the descriptions of each and my partner has traits of both." In this episode, Dr. Kerry breaks down the confusing language around narcissistic types—what "covert" and "overt" actually mean (hint: they describe symptoms, not people), why your partner can absolutely show both presentations, and most importantly, why the type matters far less than the pattern of harm you're experiencing. 
Submit Your Question 
If you'd like your question addressed on air, send it here: 👉 https://kerrymcavoyphd.fillout.com/fan-mail
Stay in Touch With Dr. Kerry!
Youtube
Instagram
TikTok
Facebook
More About Dr. Kerry
Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist and author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism. Her blogs have been featured in Mamami, YourTango, Scary Mommy, and The Good Men Project. 
In Love You More, Dr. McAvoy gives an uncensored glimpse into her survival of narcissistic abuse, and her workbook, First Steps to Leaving a Narcissist, helps victims break free from the confusion common in abusive relationships. She hosts the Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse podcast and offers trauma-related advice on social media.
Submit your question to be answered on air to the Fan Mail link below!
Support the show
Disclaimer: This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.