Catalyst with Shayle Kann

• An ode to electrochemistry

  Batteries were electrochemistry’s breakout hit. For years it was a field that kept a low profile, outshined by flashier cousins like biotech and computer science. That is until lithium-ion batteries became big business, showing that studying the relationship between chemicals and energy could unlock technical pathways that other disciplines could not. Now the field is making breakthroughs in critical areas like cement, metallurgy, and new battery chemistries. So what else can electrochemistry do? Which problems is it especially good at solving? In this episode, Shayle talks to Dr. Yet-Ming Chiang, a professor of materials science and engineering at MIT. He’s also the co-founder of at least six electrochemistry companies, including Form Energy and Sublime Systems, which are both portfolio companies of Energy Impact Partners where Shayle is an investor. They cover topics like: Promising applications like mining, SAFs, and other industrial processes that require a high concentration of energy The strengths of electrochemistry and where it fits best in larger system The weak spots of electrochemistry, like solid-solid transformations and the limitation to 2-dimensional surfaces How electrochemical processes work with intermittent power and the role of embedded chemical storage AI’s potential to shape the field — and its limits Recommended resources Catalyst: What do you do with a 100-hour battery? Catalyst: Fixing cement’s carbon problem Catalyst: Seeking the holy grail of batteries Catalyst: The promise and perils of sodium-ion batteries Credits: Hosted by Shayle Kann. Produced and edited by Daniel Woldorff. Original music and engineering by Sean Marquand. Stephen Lacey is executive editor. Catalyst is brought to you by EnergyHub. EnergyHub helps utilities build next-generation virtual power plants that unlock reliable flexibility at every level of the grid. See how EnergyHub helps unlock the power of flexibility at scale, and deliver more value through cross-DER dispatch with their leading Edge DERMS platform, by visiting energyhub.com. Catalyst is brought to you by Antenna Group, the public relations and strategic marketing agency of choice for climate and energy leaders. If you're a startup, investor, or global corporation that's looking to tell your climate story, demonstrate your impact, or accelerate your growth, Antenna Group's team of industry insiders is ready to help. Learn more at antennagroup.com.

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  37:40
• How AI is solving real utility challenges [partner content]

  Laurent Boinot, a power and utilities leader at Microsoft, remembers the moment he discovered the power of artificial intelligence. Years ago, as a student using a basic AI model to assess World Bank project risks, he was amazed to discover the technology outperformed human experts. "With a very basic AI tool, we were able to replicate that risk analysis and do a better job than the human graders did," says Boinot. Today, Boinot works with utilities to implement AI solutions — an industry traditionally resistant to new technologies. "Our customers want to be fast followers, and in order to be fast followers, you need to follow someone, so someone has to go first. That's definitely an issue in this sector in particular," explains Boinot. Despite this hesitation, Boinot sees AI transforming everything from regulatory processes to grid management. In this episode, produced in partnership with Microsoft, Laurent Boinot talks with Stephen Lacey about where AI can have the biggest impact on utilities.  They discuss how AI is supporting field workers, enabling scientific breakthroughs in battery technology, and helping companies like Constellation provide "24/7 matching" of green electricity — moving from "net zero to actual zero emission." This is a partner episode, brought to you by Microsoft. Learn more about how Microsoft is working with utilities and other energy companies to deploy AI to accelerate the energy transition.

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  17:32
• A skeptic’s take on AI electricity load growth

  The predictions are coming in hot. Data centers could grow to consume more than 9% of U.S. electricity generation by 2030, according to EPRI. That’s more than double its current estimated data center load. AI will increase global data center power demand 165% by 2030, says Goldman Sachs. And billions of dollars are at stake. Utilities, megasite developers, and data center operators are all basing major decisions on predictions like these. But they’re also the kinds of predictions we’ve seen before. In 1999, when the internet was growing fast, a couple researchers claimed it would grow to consume half of all U.S. power generation within a decade — until a team at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory debunked it. Jonathan Koomey was one of those researchers. Although today’s predictions about energy usage are tamer than those in 1999, Jonathan still has questions about the current hype around AI power demand. He's is now the founder and president of Koomey Analytics, which has published multiple papers on the topic, including a recent report for the Bipartisan Policy Center: Electricity Demand Growth and Data Centers: A Guide for the Perplexed. So what are the assumptions that go into these new predictions? And how do they hold up to scrutiny? In this episode, Shayle talks to Jonathan about why he questions the hype around AI load growth predictions and why he believes energy constraints will incentivize the AI industry to focus on efficiency. Shayle and Jonathan cover topics like: The time lags and proprietary data that hinders precise data center load estimates, both in historical analyses and future predictions The difficulty of reproducing the predictions of even prominent institutions like the IEA The two basic assumptions that go into predictions: AI demand and AI power requirements Why Jonathan believes conventional wisdom relies on questionable sources, like Nvidia’s business plan The unexplored areas of AI energy efficiency, like computer architecture, software improvements, algorithms, and special purpose computers Recommended resources Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory: 2024 United States Data Center Energy Usage Report Nature: Will AI accelerate or delay the race to net-zero emissions? Joule: To better understand AI’s growing energy use, analysts need a data revolution WSJ: Internet Hype in the ’90s Stoked a Power-Generation Bubble. Could It Happen Again With AI? Open Circuit: The data center boom: ‘All the cheap power is gone’ Credits: Hosted by Shayle Kann. Produced and edited by Daniel Woldorff. Original music and engineering by Sean Marquand. Stephen Lacey is executive editor. Catalyst is brought to you by EnergyHub. EnergyHub helps utilities build next-generation virtual power plants that unlock reliable flexibility at every level of the grid. See how EnergyHub helps unlock the power of flexibility at scale, and deliver more value through cross-DER dispatch with their leading Edge DERMS platform, by visiting energyhub.com. Catalyst is brought to you by Antenna Group, the public relations and strategic marketing agency of choice for climate and energy leaders. If you're a startup, investor, or global corporation that's looking to tell your climate story, demonstrate your impact, or accelerate your growth, Antenna Group's team of industry insiders is ready to help. Learn more at antennagroup.com.

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  56:23
• Cultivated meat’s “trough of disillusionment”

  Between 2013 and 2023, cultivated meat companies raised a total of nearly $3 billion. In 2020, Singapore approved the world’s first cultivated meat products, with the U.S. and Israel following close behind.  But head to the meat department of any American grocery store today, and you won’t find cultivated meat for sale. After short-lived restaurant tasting menus in the U.S., it’s no longer available. Distribution in Singapore is growing but small, and no products have launched in Israel yet.  So what happened to the high hopes for cultivated meat? And what comes next for the industry? In this episode, Shayle talks to Isha Datar, executive director of New Harvest, a non-profit focused on developing research in the industry. She has written blog posts arguing that the industry is in the start-up hype cycle’s “trough of disillusionment.” She calls for focusing on basic research, targeting high-value products, and even adopting a different name — cellular agriculture — to signal a shift toward a broader set of biotech products and techniques. Shayle and Isha cover topics like: What went wrong with the first-generation startups focused on low-value, whole-meat products like beef and chicken Persistent challenges in the industry, like the siloing of expertise, scarcity of research funding, and lack of standardization  Why she’s hopeful about a more diverse second generation that’s focused on high-value products like sashimi and foie gras and biotech ingredients like fetal bovine serum and cell culture media The cellular agriculture cost stack and the $30,000 batch of cookies  Basic research, shared resources, and the standardization needed to bring down costs Recommended resources New Harvest: Where Are We On the Hype Cycle? Part I and Part II The Counter: Lab-grown meat is supposed to be inevitable. The science tells a different story. Biotechnology and Bioengineering: Scale-Up Economics for Cultured Meat Credits: Hosted by Shayle Kann. Produced and edited by Daniel Woldorff. Original music and engineering by Sean Marquand. Stephen Lacey is executive editor. Catalyst is brought to you by EnergyHub. EnergyHub helps utilities build next-generation virtual power plants that unlock reliable flexibility at every level of the grid. See how EnergyHub helps unlock the power of flexibility at scale, and deliver more value through cross-DER dispatch with their leading Edge DERMS platform, by visiting energyhub.com. Catalyst is brought to you by Antenna Group, the public relations and strategic marketing agency of choice for climate and energy leaders. If you're a startup, investor, or global corporation that's looking to tell your climate story, demonstrate your impact, or accelerate your growth, Antenna Group's team of industry insiders is ready to help. Learn more at antennagroup.com.

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  43:48
• The promise and perils of sodium-ion batteries

  Sodium-ion could be the next big thing. Last August, Natron announced a $1.4B factory in North Carolina. Other U.S. companies like Peak Energy, Bedrock Materials, and Acculon Energy are jockeying for position in the market. Meanwhile, almost all of the world’s sodium-ion manufacturing capacity, current and planned, is in China. CATL’s CEO Robin Zeng suggested that sodium-ion could ultimately take up to half of LFP’s market share. The potential advantages are exciting: Sodium-based chemistries could be cheaper and safer. They could also use domestically sourced materials, avoiding the geopolitical headaches of minerals critical to the lithium-ion supply chain, like nickel, cobalt, and copper. So, amid all the sodium-ion hype, what's credible and what’s not? In this episode, Shayle talks to Adrian Yao, founder of Stanford’s STEER program, a battery research group specializing in techno-economic analysis. He’s also a board member of lithium-ion manufacturer EnPower, where he was once a co-founder and CTO. Shayle and Adrian talk about the findings from a recent Nature paper Adrian co-authored exploring a techno-economic analysis of sodium-ion batteries. They cover topics like: The differences between sodium-ion and lithium-ion, as illustrated by the battery sandwich  Misconceptions about sodium-ion, for example, that it’s necessarily safer  The biggest challenges: energy density and cost competitiveness How players in the lithium-ion supply chain could pivot to sodium-ion Why the technology’s success may hinge on the price of nickel, copper, and other lithium-ion materials Recommended resources Nature Energy: Critically assessing sodium-ion technology roadmaps and scenarios for techno-economic competitiveness against lithium-ion batteries Latitude Media: Peak Energy’s quest to build US sodium-ion battery dominance Heatmap: Is Sodium-Ion the Next Big Battery? WSJ: U.S. Battery Rush Spurs $1.4 Billion Sodium-Ion Factory in North Carolina Credits: Hosted by Shayle Kann. Produced and edited by Daniel Woldorff. Original music and engineering by Sean Marquand. Stephen Lacey is executive editor. Catalyst is brought to you by EnergyHub. EnergyHub helps utilities build next-generation virtual power plants that unlock reliable flexibility at every level of the grid. See how EnergyHub helps unlock the power of flexibility at scale, and deliver more value through cross-DER dispatch with their leading Edge DERMS platform, by visiting energyhub.com. Catalyst is brought to you by Antenna Group, the public relations and strategic marketing agency of choice for climate and energy leaders. If you're a startup, investor, or global corporation that's looking to tell your climate story, demonstrate your impact, or accelerate your growth, Antenna Group's team of industry insiders is ready to help. Learn more at antennagroup.com.

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  46:39

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